A New Bayonetta 3 Report Features A Differing Account Of PlatinumGames' VA Pay Offer

'two sources — who requested to remain anonymous' source : trust me bro lol

probably we will never know the whole truth

Hmmm, well I’d be surprised that she went to the trouble to make these videos to be called a liar. I think we need to see actual evidence so the community can make up its own mind on whether to support the game or not. Clearly there has been a breakdown in communication on all sides. No one should be getting hate messages about all this.

Oh boy. This might get messy...or messier than it already was. Stay cool people!

I might be proven wrong about this, but I'm not buying it. It makes no sense to me for Hellena Taylor to risk her career just to lie about the pay she was offered. There's also the fact that Bryan Dechart (who played Connor in Detroit: Become Human) had an experience of his own with a different game that was strikingly similar to the one Hellena described. http://twitter.com/BryanDechart/status/1581326079091802113

@Would_you_kindly So they should give their names so they can lose their jobs so you’ll believe them? Not likely.

Twitter drama. 5% hurt. 95% guesswork. Pick a side and see who can scream the loudest.

This is totally different with what Ms. Taylor said in her video. This will looks so bad to her. She such a lying & greedy person

Is this the same guy that reported about Sony apparently paying to keep a certain game off gamepass & then the publisher not long after confirmed that as not being true lol

If the report is true, then it seems as though Ms Taylor was banking (no pun intended) on the idea, that she IS Bayonetta and because of that, Platinum would pay it. No matter how outlandish the amount. And if that was her game plan going in, she blew it. This seems to me, like she was given bad advice on how to handle it… maybe. Also, her plan backfired. Bayonetta is all over the place now and more people are now interested in it. Good job???

@Koxen And to be honest, probably don't need to. If you like the game, buy the game. Don't put your money where it's obviously used for evil but you can't spend your whole life investigating everything you buy.

She is literally hoping her fanbase will create leverage so she can get a raise. Like I can get boycotting something over some egregious evil done, but we're talking about her not liking the offer she got. So she wants the entire community to boycott the game for what? So she can feel vindicated about asking for what she asked? Come on man, give me a break. That'd be like me asking for a raise at my job and if I didn't get it, asking the Internet to boycott my company. Twitter activism is out of hand.

http://twitter.com/jasonschreier/status/1582438310718238720

So Jason Schreier says in this thread that Bloomberg reviewed evidence proving Taylor was lying.

Let's see the mental gymnastics people will pull now, because admitting they were wrong is impossible.

Personally, I don't care. What I do have a problem with is rallying up your fans to fight your battles for you. She isn't out for justice, she is out for herself, and trying to guilt trip people into this personal battle she's started.

She is a Diva for sure. She got greedy in my opinion. I'm sad she didn't make a deal.

A new report shows that a report has reporting in it!🙄
Haven't we had enough of this already?
I know I have.

Can't wait to play the actual game not this silly game everyone is playing atm.

@InJeffable People make bad choices every day.

One of my favorite podcasts said something interesting. There are three sides to a story. Two for the two parties, then the third being the truth.

I don't care for the drama and I hope to play the bayonetta stories at some point. Always been hoping for a sale of some sort. Things happen and people will be replaced for whatever reason. Treasure what you have now and don't hold any grudges, if you can that is.

Didn't like how she handled this from the get go. You get paid to do a job, no equity. It's somebody elses IP. She did a job 2 times. Negotiating 3rd job is a separate thing, and if you don't get to terms, you don't get to terms. There is no guarantees. And there should be no hard feelings. It's business. Going around and trying to discredit other side of the table is just pity and sad.

@InJeffable What career? Taylor hasn't worked in 7-8 years, and her only notable role in...anything is Bayo herself. She thought being Bayo's voice had more value than it actually has, and wanted more money because of it.

I knew something was up about the offer she said she got. She never mentioned how many sessions she would be doing for the $4000 and never gave an idea of how much she made for the prior Bayonetta games. Given Bloomberg vetted the info and journalists from other websites are confirming this, I feel Schreier's report has merit to it.

Reportedly asked for six figures AND residuals? Any developer in the right mind would instantly dismiss this; if true, this is all Hellena's doing.

I bet some people feel embarrassed right now, but will never admit it.

@Would_you_kindly Regardless of this is situation, are you not familiar with how investigative journalism works?

It’s 100% the norm to have sources stay anonymous (to the public, not to the journalist) when there are whistleblowers and in many other instances too

Well, whichever side is the liar should be ashamed of themselves but I'm &^%$ed if I know which one it is

@Would_you_kindly Remain publicly anonymous. Do you really think they’d run a story where the source is two random anonymous people without evidence

@link12684 We had something like that growing up. There are three truths. The whole truth, a half truth, and an exaggeration.

One person will tell you half, while the other exaggerates. Somewhere in between, you'll find the whole.

And this is why I don’t get into politics. You never know who to believe.

And so it begins.

@InJeffable To be honest, I don’t even know that she even cares about a career in VA given that the only thing she’s done in that field over the last ten years from what I can gather is Bayonetta, from the games to the cartoon and cameos as the character. Surely after starring as the main character in two high profile titles she’d have no trouble finding work in games?

So, pay negotiations fell apart and HT walked; we got that from the initial response. Platinum likely didn’t have that in the budget or feel it matched the worth of services rendered. This happens everyday in the work world.

I’m still buying the game twice.

At least one other publication is corroborating the Bloomberg reporting now.

Funny how the crowd that was moralizing on this issue and mindlessly parroting HT's claims without evidence are now ultra skeptical when contradictory information is reported by established journalists with strong track records, lol.

It also corroborates what Kamiya was saying on this issue.

@InJeffable Jealousy? Revenge? Her comments about how she is the only real voice of Bayonetta indicate to me that she is taking this very personally. And now that both Bloomberg and VGC are reporting this makes me believe it’s true.

Regardless of what actually happened, Voice Actors deserve to get paid more than they are at the moment.

It would take a real witch to lie and call for a boycott.

At the end of the day, this is news to the game that could help boost sales. Nowadays and in most cases, any news whether it is good or bad = good publicity.

Schreier does good journalism, so I'm inclined to believe his anonymous sources.

If Taylor did expect six figures plus royalties, she overplayed her hand and overestimated her value to the company. She wanted to bank on this being a bail out of whatever struggles she admits to going through in her life. And her "supposed" greed bit back.

As others have said, we'll likely never know the full story. But what we do know is thanks to the attention, Bayo3 may end up performing well above expectations. Thanks, Taylor! You might've ensured that the series gets a fourth entry.

Some insight on the numbers:

• $1000 an hour for studio work for a principal role is ... decent. For returning roles, especially the 3rd or higher entry, it's a tad on the low end. I would think they would go as high as $2000 after negotiations.
• The key is how important you are to the role and how big the game is, not your personal talent or even industry standards. That's how "talent" works, it's not like getting a 9-5. Jon St. John, as an example, made 5 figures for his work on "Duke Nukem Forever", but he does other Studio work for much less, in the $500 an hour range.
• Residuals for voice work would have been a deal breaker. There is ZERO chance she got that, so even if we are looking at a situation where she came to negotiations with an insane demand but then lowered it if she got residuals, they would have said no. I think that's the most likely scenario here, she came in asking for 6 figures (like they say) but then was willing to do it for $4000 and residuals and they said no, which lead to her posting that they wouldn't give her more than $4000.

Has Hellena denied asking for 6 figures? What did she ask for? Because 6 figures for a few VA sessions is absurd.

I've heard people say she has no reason to lie and risk her career but what career? She's known for voicing Bayo and that's it, it's not like she's famous. I don't see why Platinum would lie, if Hellena thinks this debacle is going to significantly hurt sales it just demonstrates the size of her ego.

It makes me think that Hellena is just upset that she's not being treated and paid like an entitled celebrity, she's lost the only significant role she's ever had and it's entirely her fault, so she's trying to take down the company with her.

Well, well, well. So she wasn't even lowballed, nor offered the standard rates, but offered MORE. Yeah, this doesn't make Taylor look good at all.

Welp, one thing this whole ordeal did do was boost Bayonetta 3 on the sales charts, so that's good.

I don't even care if it's true or not, because I'm over the debate for this(same as Hellena it seems lol) and am just gonna enjoy the game when it comes out, but 6 figures? For Bayonetta? Now that's funny!

I guess people read "who requested to be anonymous" as "trust me bro". Even though the next line says "though whose claims are supported by documentation seen by both Bloomberg and VGC". I wouldn't comment without knowing the full picture.

Ahh, 3000-4000 per session seems way more realistic than her initial 4000. That kind of day rate is pretty darn good for most working voice actors, probably one of the higher tier union rates. The trade off with voice work is you don’t make as much but you can gig constantly. I’ve worked with some actors that recorded out of their own home studio with director/producer/client/etc just phoning in, and they line multiple sessions up a day.

I'm still firmly in the camp of "just pay voice actors more money."

See this sounds more plausible than "they only offered me $4k total for 20 hours of work boohoo woe is me)".

So 15-20 THOUSAND dollars to sit and TALK for 20 hours wasn't worth it to her?!

Either way ill still enjoy it.

Judging by the huge amount of comments these Bayo 3 articles have been getting it seems a lot of people do care about this story!!

Have to say though... I really, really don't. It's like they're just going all out on PR at this point and trying to maximise the exposure.

I just hope the new VA is good, throughout, because that's going to be a whole load of awkward all round if there's a bad performance or a badly delivered line in the game.

I’m just buying the game, simple as that. Going to enjoy it too.

So Helena Taylor wanted $100,000+ and residuals/royalties for 15-20 hours of voice work?

That's ludicrous. She must have the misconception that Bayonetta is a huge video game icon and cultural juggernaut, because she is not.

And all that i can think about is...how much did that guy who voices Link get payed....

You'd think people would learn from what happened with Mick Gordon

@Would_you_kindly "though whose claims are supported by documentation seen by both Bloomberg and VGC"

@CharlieGirl Agreed. I think they should be able to do one gig for 4 days and never have to work again.

@Martijn87 Hopefully not paid per word.

Kamiya has now said pretty much the same. I see why he was not happy.

@larryisaman it's Bloomberg I wouldn't trust a news outlet where the CEO is a former politician lol

@CharlieGirl People can agree voice acting is a ***** job, however this lady isn't fighting for better pay, for everyone.
She's hoping by asking people to boycott this game, that will teach platinum a "lesson."

I'm all for fighting to make things better, but this is no more than a personal grudge and vendetta. It's a selfish act, proven by running to social media and trying to make people feel like crap if they don't support her.

Better pay for voice actors is a good cause to fight for. However Hellena's isnt.

Just to make it clear. If Platinum were lying it means they literally forged documents. How likely is that?

I feel bad for Jennifer Hale. All she did was take a job and yet Helena and her follwers on social media hounded her. Also after Platinum lied about why she wasn't coming back Kamiya shuts his Twitter account after blocking everyone.

@Would_you_kindly That’s not a very scientific way to determine trust in a news source. By most accounts Bloomberg is a highly trusted source of information. There’s no real justification or motive for them to lie about any of this.

@Would_you_kindly

So you would only trust a source if they were willing to give up their career, face legal consequences and a lifetime of harassment by disclosing their name publicly?

This isn’t an insult, but I honestly and truly will never understand how people like you miss the OBVIOUS middle ground between public discloser and “random dude”.

This person isn’t anonymous TO THE JOURNALIST, they know who they are and verified their identity. They journalist does a full investigation into that person to determine if it’s reasonable to assume they had access to this information. Only then do they write an article. Yes, sometimes the information turns out to be wrong ... but sometimes the information people disclose publicly also turns out to be wrong. If you do some digging, you'll find that anonymous sources are no less reliable (and by some accounts are MORE reliable) then named sources, depending on the news outlet.

It's the same as when people dismiss an accusation against a person they support because the accuser could be “any random person”. No, it’s really can’t be. Before any serious news outlet reports an accusation, they will investigate if the accuser and the accused had a reasonable opportunity for the crime to happen. If you use your brain for half a second, you can see there is a pretty big difference between “anyone can make a random accusation” and “anyone who can prove they were seen with a person who was treating them for a sense of familiarity who can also verify, with evidence and witnesses, that they were alone with the person for long enough for the crime to be committed can make an accusation”

She's definitely lying.

@Shepdawg1 in politics? no one, lol

@Madao Smarminess aside, every worker in every industry deserves to get paid what they're work is worth. Voice acting should be no exception.

When the original story first broke, I basically posted that we don’t know what we don’t know.

Now that more information is available, it is likely that the claims made by Hellena Taylor may have been parsed.

For example, the last offer of $4,000 may be true - but based on today’s information, it may also have been for the cameo only.

I will say I only watched the first Taylor video. Dragging the value of her seven years of acting education into the conversation did not sit right with me - nor did the timing of this revelation. So I always thought there was more to this. I just thought it was a petty pay dispute or a low-ball offer to let Platinum move on from Taylor.

That Taylor's story, with all respect to her, remains a headscratcher for me doesn't quite put me in the audience for a new radio hit from Schreier & the Sources band. But then again, boycott calls notwithstanding, we audiences and fans aren't quite in a capacity to arbitrate this kind of situation anyway - whatever really happened there is for other VAs, studios and other entities to look into and learn from, not for a parasitic consumer crowd whose tried'n'true response to the news has already been to attack the replacement actress on social media. That's where we're undeniable experts, after all.🙄

@Koxen chances are, someday we will, just like the present day makes us privy to the industry's secrets and crazy stories of the decades past. From no [longer] "anonymous" sources to boot. This is the way.

All of this is a complete and utter mess. At this point, I hope Hale pulls it off as Bayo and Taylor finds theater a more financially viable career.

Good lord, this is quite messy. But hey, it's entertaining at least. I swear, Twitter drama is my version of reality TV lmao

I was going to buy Bayo 3, anyway...

@metalgario Not surprising at all if she's a disgruntled ex-employee throwing a fit. Given how she threw her replacement under the bus, this seems likely.

@CharlieGirl Agreed. But I think 15k for 4 half days of work is more than fair. Even the original claim of 4k is a perfectly fair amount. Understandably VAs need to be paid more by the hour compared to regular workers since they don't have daily work, but I think it is the lower end of VAs that are struggling, not the protagonists, like in this case.

6 figures? Geez I don't think Bayonetta is that popular but ok lol

Well, 15 grand still seems pretty low when you are/were the only voice of an entire franchise, but that's more opinion. One thing I WILL say, is Jennifer Hale is the LAST person gamers should be attacking. Even if there were shenanigans, I seriously doubt Hale knew/was a part of it. She's brought a lot of good voices to the hobby. Should maybe have better grounds than "nerd rage" for attacking anyone really, but esp her. I'd imagine she's got the makes of her own fan army to go up against Bayonetta; Hale has many franchises under her belt. Could just blow up before anyone lets the legal dust settle and see what the truth is.

All this drama has no influence on my interest in Bayonetta 3. Unfortunately for Taylor, it may affect her ability to secure more work in the future, and perhaps a defamation lawsuit is coming her way. Without knowing the ultimate truth yet, I'm still inclined to believe PG here

@link12684 There are two sides to a story but also sometimes there are liars. If you look at the situation objectively it’ll make Ms Taylor’s actions look ridiculous even without this news. It is good to be wary of anyone who tries to manipulate you by making you feel sorry for them.

@Freek are you insinuating that what goes on behind the scenes at large game publishers and developers isn't worth covering? If so, grow up.

This is why the modern tendency of ranting on social media about your professional concerns should stop.

If you have issues with your employer, be the decent person and process them through the proper legal channels.

HT's actions are the equivalent of screaming to total strangers on the street about your hang-ups in life, but it's through social media so apparently it's okay.

I was wrong for believing Hellena's story at face value and fully admit to having pie in my face.

Something tells me the truth lies somewhere in between. There’s what Platinum we’re originally willing to pay, what Taylor asked for, and then what Platinum offered after hearing the figure Taylor thought she was worth so she’d go away.

And yes video games make money, but they also cost a lot as well, especially when it comes to worldwide localisation. Now it makes sense why Nintendo prefers to make games where the characters just ‘Woo Hoo’ or ‘Eyarrr’.

I am shocked! /s
Nice to see some comfirmation that Taylor was full of it. PG is definitely better off without her.

She was blinded by her GREED.

@roboshort ehhh, I don't trust humans. Sure either side may not lie, but everyone has their own perspective of what actually happened. Hence, the third side being a more neutral position.
I do get what you're saying though. Just a shame and perhaps more information will be given for the masses to come to their own conclusion instead of a game of he said she said

@CharlieGirl What are they worth, though? In anything artistic that isn't a full time job that is highly subjective. Even what she said, even if it was lying, it was MUCH HIGHER than what her union, has as standards.

Not that it is relevant, but does Smash have new voice recordings for her or are they just recycled clips from 1 & 2?

Two things I'm taking away from this.

1) If the sources are accurate that means Taylor did not "lie" per say. She may have been referring to the $4000 cameo appearance. That is not lying that is just not telling the whole truth. It's still not an ideal situation, but $20,000 for four days work is a LOT of cash by any metric.

2) VAs do deserve better rates. Based on comments from other talents around the industry like Salyers and Chiplock the fact that the $4000 is something a lot of industry pros make is a bit sad. It is good money by most standards, but considering how sparse roles can be and how competitive the industry is I wish they got paid better for their talents.

That is my two cents. I've been rather empathetic at first and if this Bloomberg article is true I feel taken advantage of. I still don't know how to feel... but I feel more depressed at learning this than anything.

If true then that's just pure greed on her part, asking for six figures and then telling everyone to boycott the game is just disgusting. I'm glad she's gone and I will boycott any game she's involved in going forward.

@GuyProsciutto
No, stop putting words in my mouth.
I meant that what is between the company and the person involved is between them.
I am saying I just care about the game, not what is happening behind the scenes as that doesn't and shouldn't concern me as I am not part of it.
I just want to enjoy games for what they are, games.
If someone didn't get paid enough then that is between those 2 parties.
We don't know everything about what happened and we shouldn't, doesn't concern us.
Btw, I'm 51, if I grew up any more I'd be dead.😁

@Ralizah He did say something about 15k before the madness overtook on Twitter

This one series of stories is like the gift that keeps on giving to nintendolife.

Called it. And yes, I totally believe this, because Schreier is always pro-worker and anti-corporate, as everyone should be when workers get shafted, but not when the worker is actually lying. He would 100% not publish this information if it wasn't completely verified to be fact, he has nothing to gain out of it and it's against his own values. Hellena Taylor, I'm glad you are not involved in this game anymore. You don't deserve royalties or a fat paycheck.

@Would_you_kindly "Is this the same guy that reported about Sony apparently paying to keep a certain game off gamepass & then the publisher not long after confirmed that as not being true lol"

Didn't Microsoft literally accused Sony of doing that kind of practices in an official document for Brazil’s national competition regulator? XD
http://www.theverge.com/2022/8/10/23300133/microsoft-sony-xbox-game-pass-blocking-rights-accusation

One thing that made me sceptical about Taylor initially was that her replacement was Jennifer Hale. Hale is a fairly well known name when it comes to video game voice acting and voice acting in general and I would have thought could demand more money than Taylor.

Honestly who knows at this point. Its strange she would lie but then i feel Platinum would come up with something more credible if they were lying so 🤷‍♂️

@WallyWest Why is it strange that she would lie? Based on her behaviour alone anyone familiar with behavioural patterns can tell that she was not of sound mind when creating the videos. To put it in simpler terms, she seems a bit mental.

And again, dont make your problem, the problem of everyone else.
Fight it out in court.
Normally i would pass on this game, but because of this action i buy two copy's, one for myself and one as a gift.

Not surprised the least bit.

@HeadPirate "$1000 an hour for studio work for a principal role is ... decent. For returning roles, especially the 3rd or higher entry, it's a tad on the low end. I would think they would go as high as $2000 after negotiations."

I don't get why people is so fixated on defending people that earn way above the minimum wave .-. (Specially after that person seemingly lied and try to boycott a project that was made by multiple people and she didn't even worked in)

@metalgario she obviously lied
She claimed that they made 450M just from the games (not including merch, spin-off and other things)
For that to be true they needed like 7.5M copies at full price of 60$ (without even counting the shops and eshop cut… so much more than 7.5m)
The games sold together a bit more 3m copies on all platforms and on the switch, which most of those sold copies came from, was sold for 60$ (they cost 30$ and 40$ or 60$ for both games, if you buy one you even get 10$ off the price of the second one for a total of 60$)

So if she lied on this, what else could she lie about?

@Westlondonmist she probably did

@GalvanizedGamer
I think that's what tips the balance. I'd give the benefit of the doubt if that were only Taylor vs PG, two sides of the same story.
But when she tried to throw Hale under the bus, "she is not Bayonetta, I am Bayonetta", she lost all credibility.
Probably, after the remasters on Switch and Bayonetta in Smash, she thought she had a hit. Overplayed her hand, got "fired", and thought that could force PG and Nintendo to domehow rehire her.

The way I see it, Jennifer Hale is now my Bayonetta

VGC has corroborated this as well by Multiple sources...

Yep, she lied

http://www.videogameschronicle.com/news/sources-dispute-bayonetta-voice-actors-claims-over-pay-offer/

So what happened is either they lowballed her, or she asked for an absurd amount of money...

Well if the truth is in the middle somewhere, there are two conclusions to which we can come.

1) She thinks her talent is worth more than a company that hires VA thinks.

2) She thinks she holds ownership over the character to the point where she can straight-faced tell people to boycott the game.

Either way, she is definitely not in the right because of conclusion #2. Her demand to boycott is petty, and out of touch with reality.

If she got lowballed, then she is right to be angry with Platinum Games. However, she is wrong to attack Jennifer Hale. Hellena got offered a job, she refused it. Platinum will need someone to do the game and Jennifer Hale is a great choice. Hale did nothing wrong so for Taylor to attack her like that is just bitchy.

If this is true, it’s over for her, and I can’t believe the stunt she’d pull, and my respect would be gone. She could have just went on her marry way, but noo, she had to try and boycott the game because off what? Someone else took the role you didn’t? This whole thing was handled poorly on her part and if she lied that makes it worse, because she used her name to try and attack people, and just because she didn’t get the amount of money she wanted, sheesh. I know I won’t miss her.

so many without any facts were quick to take helena side

i believe bloomberg news

@Would_you_kindly Dude's a respected journalist for Bloomberg. Do you not understand how anonymous sourcing works?

Let this be a lesson to all of us to maybe wait a few minutes before taking a side in things like this.

The biggest thing about this situation is that Platinum didn't even do anything wrong in the first place.

She got a offer, refused it and ran to Twitter. It was hard to take her side from the get go

I have to agree. People were waaay to quick to pick sides, even tho it’s so odd for her to put her career on the line in such a way, who know ps why people do the things they do lmao.

I was on both from the start, so, whichever turns out to be true, turns out to be true.

LMAO even the “She totally deserves more money!” people can’t even defend this anymore. 15k for a few sessions that is less then a week worth of work is not even remotely close to “minimum wage”.

Not surprised Platinum showed her the door if she heavily overvalued herself with a six figure price tag when her resume/experience that had practically nothing noteworthy since 2014 and she is ONLY known for Bayonetta

The fact that they can back this up with physical evidence hurts her credibility even more. She literally burned all her bridges just to show her incompetence.

Remember back in the day when you would be excited for Nintendo Magazine or Game Informer or some other gaming magazine to arrive in the mail?

Remember as a child when you would read exciting stories about employee wages, boycotts, rejected job offers, and insults flying over Twitter?

Me neither.

Video Game journalism has certainly changed.

Well, taking a look at Taylor's career via IMDB, it's certainly not as diverse or large as Jennifer Hale's, and since the first Bayonetta 2009, has had only 9 gigs, six of which were here voicing Bayonetta.

Not to place blame, but she's well aware of Bayonetta's popularity and it would absolutely not surprise me if she over-valued her compensation, especially if the rumors of residuals are true.

With that being said, only two things are certain. 1) One of these two parties is full of **** and 2) I will be playing Bayonetta 3 on day 1 regardless as I refuse to boycott a piece of work based on 1 person's claim, impacting and undermining the effort of so many people that had no involvement with this aspect of the game's development.

@johnedwin Why are you surprised? A woman VA complained on Twitter that the “evil company” didn’t “give money for her actual worth”. You will get everyone from White Knights, SJWs, Feminists, and “companies always bad!” Twitter crazies willing to believe anything if she asked without a shred of evidence.

Factor in that “journalist” sites these days are “fire first ask questions later” instead of honest journalist integrity of yesteryear for the sake of cheap easy clicks [like that last article here for instance] and you got a perfect storm of exploiting ignorance for profit

That “critical thinking” post from Hale makes this all the more hilarious with how true it was with how quickly people gobbled up the first accusation that surfaced like it was a chocolate cake

So she got greedy and they called her bluff then she got bitter and tried to sabotage the launch.
What a sad woman, I'll buy two copies now since my GF wanted it anyway.

Ever since the $15,000 tweet, I'd been wondering if this was a misunderstanding. Like, they offered $4,000 per session, and she thought total. So she countered $20,000 total, and they thought per session. I have no way to know if I'm right, but the numbers both sides have been throwing around would add up. She even said she had a friend translate a letter for her, and who knows how fluent their Japanese is.
Not sure if I'd rather be right or wrong about this.

And this is why I don't pick a side. And even now you can't know 100% sure who is actually telling the truth, if anyone even is. It's just an incredibly stupid situation that I think really should have remained private to begin with.

But I guess if Taylor does tell the truth then she just wanted to get the ball rolling on getting better payment for voice actors in general which I guess this may have helped with. Dunno if it will help at this point though.

Either way I'm really not even sure who to believe and I'm not going to pick a side. I just still hope that the whole situation will end up ending as well as it still can at this point for all parties involved.

@Would_you_kindly I would trust Bloomberg with a source that has actual evidence + other sites corroborating said evidence over a disgruntled ex VA ranting on Twitter with nothing else to support her argument besides attacking her replacement and shrieking for a boycott

@judaspete VGC says she saw the contract, there's no misunderstanding here. She simply used the $4,000 figure to be misleading and thought that due to the NDA Platinum Games would stay quiet.

This whole story is just so unfortunate, both sides saying the other is lying. In a way, I’m glad Bayo 3 wasn’t a title I planned to purchase, as now I needn’t dedicate any more thought to the matter and wonder who to support with my hard-earned $$.

@InJeffable lol what “career”? The one that was empty since 2014 and having one notable role? Not much to lose at this point if her goal was to give one final “screw you”.

It makes perfect sense that she would lie to Twitter crazies that gobble anything up without a shred of evidence because she was pissed that PG didn’t give in to her absurd terms because “I am Bayonetta!” and was quickly replaced with a more sane and better resume VA

Yeah I’ll believe the side with actual evidence and multiple confirmations then “crazy woman did crazy thing to blacklist herself so she MUST be telling the truth”

On a side note laughing pretty good that there are people here that actually think “anonymous source” is the equivalent of “trust me bro” based on that first comment here. That would explain a lot of the gullible reactions from the first article here. Hale was right. Critical thinking needs to be more widespread in the modern age.

Kind of why I never said anything in the first place. I don't know that part of the industry well enough (or indeed her as a person) to make any kind of informed opinion, especially at the time when it seemed some crucial information was missing.

It's all very strange, anyway.

@Switch_Pro Very true and i have been 2nd guessing her since she released the videos but breaking an NDA is very serious business and you would have to have a major point to break one or you're just plain crazy, for her well being i hope its more the former and that she isn't in self destructive phase because i know from personal experience how dangerous that is.

@Rika_Yoshitake

@judaspete
I tended to wonder too, if something was lost in translation during negotiations.

For all we know, the “6-figure” amount could have been in yen! 400,000JPY is very roughly $4,000 USD, by the old 100 yen to the dollar formula.

My initial comment was partially wrong by assuming she had other work, in which case, 4 thousand is good. If it's all Hellena has, then she needs to find more work, or work in another type of industry that gives pay she feels appropriate.

This story is another example of emotions running high, and assumptions from limited information.

Maybe VAs need better pay, or maybe it's not the kind of job to rely on to keep the lights on, and own your property? I'm not an expert, and I think it truly is a per-project kind of issue.

@InJeffable To be fair, this is the same person that claims she is the only possible Bayonetta and got salty towards her replacement actress—which from our limited perspective is irrefutably pure, unadulterated, petty envy—for moving up in the world. The world of acting is full of liars seeking to save their own respective hides, so this could very well be a revelation of Hellena's character. Furthermore, albeit emotions and tensions are high in a situation like this, for someone to refute an argument with language such as, "that's an absolute lie!" there's an iota of sus in the air. If it's truly a lie that's being spouted against you, why this level of defense? Surely there are receipts of these higher offers, assuming they exist; if they do, Taylor's reputation is absolutely fubar. Lot of pressure, don't you think?

@metalgario Generally speaking the party who jumps to make a video is either lying or not telling the full truth. We will likely never see the actual contract offered to her, which is the only thing that can prove anything.

She was probably offered comparable to what her previous stints paid and didn't like it, as evident by her video. Platinum claiming she wanted a six figure sum and residuals backs that up, and I don't think it's too farfetched to believe she did ask for more money. Unfortunately I get the feeling she got greedy. Her voice work was great, though it seems easily replicated (which virtually means nothing given how many different people do identical voices in anime, cartoons, other games, etc) but this public display will have likely cost her a future in the industry.

While Bayonetta the franchise is relatively popular, platinum tends to have several duds between bigger games. They needed Nintendo to fund the second game as well and I wouldn't be surprised if this one was funded by them too, which means that if they couldn't have hired her (or anyone else for that matter) for $xxxx sum, they would have looked elsewhere. I doubt Hale got much more if any to do the job despite how big a name she is. Every job pays differently, you sign the contract to agree to do it or you don't. Unless it's Activision, EA, etc, you really don't have much negotiation power, especially not someone of Taylor's small resume.

** Since people keep tagging me, stop. I don't read what you say, this isn't a discussion. I say what I need to then leave never to return. You're wasting your energy.**

@RobynAlecksys I don't know who you are or what you're in discussion about with everyone else, but I hope you have a better day moving forward.

@Ade117 Right there with ya. I'm inclined to side with the individual against the corporation, the underdog. But at least this was a leaning lesson for me. Things aren't always as they seem.

@Teksetter I doubt Platinum games were negotiating an american voice actor's pay in yenes XD

@Would_you_kindly they have documentation, really not hard to blame a whistleblower for wanting to remain anonymous in this kind of situation.

@Yosher Sorry but all Helena talked about was herself.

A no point was she standing up for VAs pay in general, just how she was insulted by what PG offered and how she'd be homeless if she'd had taken PG rates. That only she is Bayonetta and that Bayonetta's games made $450m (which is literally impossible given the series sales figures, AKA a lie).

She broke NDA, tried to throw the other VAs and all of Platinum under the bus out of spite. And people mindlessly mobbed Kamiya and drove him from twitter for what amounts to no good reason now.

And this sounds 1,000,000 times more realistic. Her estimate of what the Beyo franchise was worth was so far off from reality she probably thought she was being screwed and got really unreasonable with her demands.

If she really wanted to she should post the contract and correspondence since she has burned the bridge already. But I feel that might actually go against her case and why she didn't do that instead putting out the video.

Either way time to have done this was years back. The game is done and she didn't get herself a better deal. Gamers aren't really going to boycott a game 98% of them weren't even going to buy if the series sales trend keeps up.

At the end, this will be masterclass in cautionary tales of grossly overestimating one's worth & clout.

Thing is, her claim of $4000 was still a lot of money for the amount of work she had to do. Looks like they were looking at 20 hours of work for this game, so she was looking at about $200 an hour for work if her claim of only $4000 was true. And I get it, that that isn't to scale in the voice acting industry, but it's still so much more money per hour than at least 90% of Americans will make per hour in their entire life. And on top of that she has the gall to demand that fans of the game boycott the game because $200 an hour for 20 hours of work isn't good enough for her. Well boo hoo, I'm not going to boycott the thousands of hours of work of countless devs that actually worked on the game and had no say on what your pay was ever going to be. At $200 an hour this was already incredibly selfish and disgusting. Learning that she was lying and it was actually nearly $1000 an hour that wasn't good enough for her only magnifies how gross I think everything about her call for a boycott ever was.

Don't get me wrong, by all means turn down the offer if you don't think it was good enough for you, and even air your grievances for the rates voice actors are paid, that's all completely reasonable for you to do for yourself. But the moment you asked the fans to boycott the game because you decided you were more important than all the people that actually worked on the game is the moment where you forever lost me.

In fact, just to support those that actually did work on the game (and again almost every single one of them having no say on your pay), I'm going to buy this game on day one. And I had initially only planned on waiting for a sale or renting it from the public library.

@Fangleman32 I dunno if it's not a good job

Getting paid USD$250 hourly as a the standard... I seriously think it's better paid that some other jobs. I don't know. Earning USD$7 myself, I'd prefer being a VA.

With more and more journalists coming out and confirming the Bloomberg story... I'm actually really, really annoyed. I'm glad I learned about how low pay is for VAs compared to other forms of acting, but DAMN do I feel P.O.ed for being emotionally manipulated like that. I'm double-dipping now and getting the physical edition of Bayo 1 as well despite getting it for free with my Wii U and Switch editions of Bayo 2.

@Teksetter Why not buying it and play it with Japanese voices?

@Yosher She criticized her replacement VA. That, by itself, talks very bad about her.

I think what happened here was that a rather plain lady with no real acting credits to her name, landed this rather large job. The success of the franchise inflated her self worth to where she honestly believed that her standard British woman voice was what catapulted the game to any success. This caused her to believe she deserves the lions share of the money it's earned.

What she failed to understand is you have to land many important roles, have a distinct characteristic to your voice, and be able to create many different voices to land the big paychecks.

She is upset that she was so easily replaced once her demands got a little crazy.

@PtM Please don't imply the users with waifu anime avatars aren't actually tiny cute women but ... misogynistic grown men?

No, I shan't believe it!

@Wexter
Buying Bayonetta 1 or 2 would be what the OG Voice Actor would want, just buy them used and also pick up Bayonetta 3.

@PtM Jason Schreier's info alleges that she was offered $4k for a cameo appearance in the game, but Hellena said in the first Twitter video she posted that she was offered $4k to do voice work for the entire game.

And I quote: "The final offer to do the whole game as a buyout — flat rate — was four thousand U.S. dollars."

If Schreier's information is correct, then she was flat-out lying in that video. But I'm not convinced that Schreier's information is correct (not because Schreier is bad at what he does, but because anybody can lie to a reporter). I would have to know who these anonymous sources are and how the documentation that's been looked at stacks up against whatever documentation Hellena has (assuming she has any) before I could come to my own conclusion on this.

@Olmectron
Why are you working a job that only pays you $7/hr? Work for fast food or Walmart and you would get at least $15/hr

@InJeffable
From a report that I saw the main offer was $4k for 5 (4 hr) sessions. So $20k for 20 hrs, but she had asked for six figures because she believes they have made $450 million on the series (not sure why she believes this but she does)

@Wexter
I feel that. Though I get physical wherever possible just because I like having the cartridge period. Everything from Bayonetta 1's limited release, Torna DLC, to importing a Korean game I liked enough to get physical.

@Old_Man_Nintendo yep. It's unbelievable she tried the boycott card, really. People didn't boycott Overwatch 2 in any significant numbers and she thought a bunch of blabbering videos from a no name VA in a game hardly dependent on the voice track was going to unite the army of gamers at her back?

@judaspete Clever thought for sure, but that's definitely not what happened. Platinum Games hire people that don't speak any Japanese quite often, that sort of misunderstanding wouldn't ever happen, especially not twice.

@Old_Man_Nintendo

She got paid already for 1 and 2, not like she's getting royalties on them. If anything she'd probably want them boycotted too due to it hurting Platinum or whatever.

@Old_Man_Nintendo they specified USD$7, it's possible they're not in America and converting their pay to a rate we can identify with, and that may be an average rate of pay where they're from, who knows. On the other hand the federal minimum wage in America is indeed $7.25, meaning there are people out there that have to have those jobs regardless.

@Sethman409
Bayonetta 2 is digital only on the Switch btw, you get it as a code with Bayonetta 1. I have both of them digital though, just like the rest of my collection

@duffmmann
Many states have an independent minimum wage which is higher than the Federal. In South Dakota is 10.80/hr. $7 just seems like they are getting fleeced and need to look elsewhere.

@Old_Man_Nintendo Oh I agree that people getting paid that low should look for other work, but that doesn't mean there aren't people in the country getting paid that low all the same.

@duffmmann
No doubt there is and even lower, I think it should be a crime that waiters can be paid below minimum wage and are just expected to live off tips.

Let's pretend Taylor is Donald Trump and we trust the anonymous sources implicitly, therefore she rejected a job paying $1000 an hour. "If true", I'm definitely backing Platinum Games. Even at $250 per hour ($4000 for 16 hours work) as was previously believed, it's still well in line with the rates for this kind of work. PG really should release an official statement, even if it's to say Taylor is exaggerating in her claims and was offered a significant boost compared to the previous games.

I'm guessing Taylor wanted some extraordinary amount like 200k, and rather than even bother negotiating with her, PG just cut her off and searched elsewhere. Now she's sulking and fuming about it, hoping to turn fans against the game.

@Old_Man_Nintendo

Bayonetta 2 got a physical release with Bayonetta 1 included as a digital code. It came out like 4 years ago. They just recently released 1 as a stand-alone physical (not counting the LE they did in Japan for 2). I should know, I got both when they came out.

@Old_Man_Nintendo Well that's not exactly how it works (or at least how it's legally supposed to). Yes waiters can only be paid as low as like $2 an hour from the restaurant and the tips are expected to bring them up to minimum wage and more. But when they report their numbers at the end of their shift including all their tips, if they still made under minimum wage with their tips, then by law the restaurant has to make up the difference by paying the waiter more until their rate for that shift was minimum wage. It's still disgusting, but no waiter should ever end a shift in America without having made at least minimum wage regardless.

@SplooshDmg Now this is true, I'm not sure there is a gaming journalist I trust more when it comes to sources than Schreier

If all of this is true, how long before:

a) She doubles down on her claims, further stirring the pot
or
b) She deletes all her videos and social media?

@PtM She lied said that amount is for entire game. She didn't even mention that actually for per season. That the base of discussion for her viral video

So does this mean a direct is happening next week?

@Lgndk11r Taylor did double down on her claims as a response to Bloomberg and VGC, and said that the sources are lying. Interestingly, she also said the following gem: "I’d quite like to put this in the [rearview] mirror and leave the whole bloody franchise behind".

This statement makes her even more suspicious in my eyes, especially given that just a couple days earlier she claimed that she considers herself the end all be all Bayonetta and is very attached to this character, to the extent that Jennifer Hale can't sign as Bayonetta.

People that are caught lying will often default to this "I'm done" attitude, because they realize that the gig's up and anything they say at this point will be used against them. She sure was very invested in this a couple days ago. Now she wants to move on. Not happening Hellen, you must now deal with the consequences.

@metalgario if you are really looking to make an informed moral decision on every electronic purchase, you probably wouldn't buy anything and would live the Amish life.

@metalgario But, the whole thing doesn't make any sense.

So, Platinum lowballs the actress who established their character and then breaks out the checkbook for the more expensive Hale? And then they lie to an established journalist who has a reputation for exposing bad labor practices in the industry? Yeah, this doesn't compute ...

To me it says a lot that Jennifer Hale — a far, far more accomplished voice actor who undoubtedly commands more money for a gig — found that Platinum offered a fair wage for her services. So the more accomplished candidate has no problem working with Platinum and the candidate with a resume as thin as the paper it's printed on says Platinum offered an "insulting" wage. This doesn't prove anything, but there is smoke coming from that gun.

Taylor's supporters: Why would she lie? She has so much to lose by doing this!
Taylor in her original videos: I literally have nothing to lose, idc.

@Rika_Yoshitake Seems like a plan guaranteed to backfire. Hard to believe she's actually that stupid, but maybe I'm just simping because her voice is so goddamn sexy.

@fenlix

I don't understand how people can read a statement of fact about how much people get paid for that type of work, based on my experience in the industry, and not only take it as an endorsement but get mad about it.

So I guess we're just both going to have to be confused.

Really sad end for Taylor. She let greed get in her way and that has tarnished her legacy. I hope she finds some clarity in life and can bounce back from this ugliness. But until that happens, I think it's really for the best that she not be associated with voice acting — at least not for Platinum.

@Old_Man_Nintendo Bayo 2 is not Digital only on Switch mate

@HeadPirate

While this is a 3rd returning role, this is not a big series. Duke Nukem 3D sold 3.5 million units while the original run of Bayo 2 sold between 300,000-400,000 on the Wii U. Bayo was dead and done until the success of the Switch lifted the boat and Nintendo thought maybe we won't lose money on a 3rd. As they very likely lost money on the Wii U version until the Switch re-release.

One thing on the topic of anonymous sources ...

Take this for what you will, since I know the media is generally considered purveyors of lies. Some are. But most of us (i.e., not CNN or Fox) care about what we do and follow journalistic ethics.

I work for one of the oldest and most trusted media outlets. One that has been around many times longer than Bloomberg has and whose reputation is never called into question.

If one of my reporters came to me asking to publish a piece based on an anonymous source's contributions, I'd ...

1. Ask who this source is. No ID, no publish.
2. Ask what the source's track record is. No record of reliability, no publish.
3. Gauge the source's interest in the matter. Is this someone with a motive to lie?
4. Require that the source provide a reasonable explanation for why confidentiality is needed. No explanation, no publish.
5. Have the source present the materials to my reporter personally; no emailing or snail-mailing. I want to make sure we're not being spoofed. No good? No publish.
6. Review the documents myself. I can't see them? We can't publish.
7. Reiterate that the source will not be paid or compensated in any way.
8. Seek comments about the documents' authenticity from each side.

Bottom line, if the story blows up on us because our source proved incorrect, I'm not getting my employer's reputation harmed over this, nor, for that matter, getting my own reputation harmed. I'd rather not print the story than risk being wrong. And certainly NOT for a stupid story about a video game, which, to be frank, this is.

I'm not saying Bloomberg and VGC weren't shown a fake or misleading document or duped in some other way, but I doubt they, and Bloomberg in particular, would have gone with the story without a strong confidence in the veracity of the information they were provided.

I knew it smelled awful greedy and fishy.

...Apparently she did the same thing when she got shafted from a Hellsing anime, so

If you are looking forward to the game I hope you still enjoy it and don't let this drama ruin the experience. Support the 100s of other folks that worked on the game

@Olmectron
Hah! I like the way you think 😁
I nearly always play Japan-born games with Japanese dialogue anyway.

My real reason fir not buying Bayo 3 wasn’t this controversy, though - it’s just that I own Bayo 1& 2 on the Wii U, and as stylish as they are, I barely got past the beginning stages before other games lured me away.
Plus I acquired like 10 games in the past few weeks (Sept/Oct releases plus deliveries of old preorders from LRG, etc) and just don’t have time for everything!

@Ade117 now go an make things right by buying 10 copies of the game and send kamiya an apology letter writen with a pencil so he can erase it

@metalgario
People do stupid things all the time. I've certainly seen people convince themselves they were in the right and plow through with some BS story only to get mud on their face. I obviously don't know this person.... but I do know people who would pull this kind of thing

Also the thing that always got me about this was the timing. If it was a dispute in pay, take it up with your union or at the very least renegotiate. I don't think anyone has ever come out clean after effectively quitting and then publicly calling for a boycott

@Dr_Lugae I think it could just be a factor of wording things a bit poorly. Not saying you're not right, but we just don't know enough about the whole situation to say for sure if she was (fully) lying or not.

@Olmectron Yeah that in itself I think was something she never should've done, and I found it really weird that she said that.

I dunno, I don't really want to judge, I'm just wondering if she really was just greedy or if there's more to this story that we just don't know and whatnot.

I think that we all need popcorn now. It's getting more and more interesting and intriguing... Who's lying? Who's telling truth? Well, anyway... I play Japanese games with Japanese voice-overs, if they are present in the games. And I know that original voice-overs in the games(Bayonetta 1) was English, but, after Nintendo's help, we got Japanese dub and dual audio(!) support in the games... And their choice was really good, I think. I don't remember Atsuko Tanaka(JP Bayonetta's voice), but I do remember(and will never forget) Miyuki Sawashiro(JP Cereza's voice), who's known for me as Yui Shishido from Corpse Party games and Carl Clover from BLAZBLUE games.

@InJeffable she hasn’t worked since 2014. Her career was over. Her career was Bayonetta. When she made a ridiculous counter offer and got passed, she upset.

I for one can't wait to see the Streisand Effect in action.

@TheStormGL eh. I dunno. $15k - $20k for 20hrs of work is pretty good. Especially for a game that might not sell that well, or I should say might not profit that much.

Bayonetta has been kinda niche and only really exists so Nintendo can have a M-rated exclusive. Its more about strengthening their library for the system than expecting it to be a big seller.

Its Nintendo’s big title of Q4 (non Pokemon) and they’re not advertising it at all. That probably reflects how little extra budget is left or how little they expect it to sell

Shes out of her mind thinking Bayonetta has made $450m

@cleveland124 also, Bayo 3 started development before Bayo 2 was re-released. So they might have made that offer even before the success of Bayo 2 on Switch

@duffmmann in California waiters get paid minimum wage

This time around the numbers at least have context.

@Specters the series sales trend is increasing. This will be the best selling one

@Would_you_kindly While I don't remember Schreier saying that, he did claim the sorceress in Dragons crown was made for lolicons, and he panders to the crowd on Resetera. He might be right in this instance, but in general I would recomend taking what he says with a pinch of salt.

@Kisame83 sounds like she didn't get what we wanted (a massive paycheck), so she decided to burn the bridge and nuke the surrounding countryside.

@Vyacheslav333 Tanaka is also Major Kusanagi in Ghost in the Shell. I think she even did the JPN dub for the ScarJo movie too.

@PtM for a cameo after she lost the primary role. Which was imo a nice gesture to say no hard feelings because that would have likely been for a cutscene or two and most likely less work but at the previous rate. And it likely would have kept her relationship with Platinum intact, had she taken it. Kind of a “ok this didn’t work out but here is some work and we will keep you in mind later for future roles”.

Acting like she "is" Bayonetta just because she voiced her for two games is so so insulting to the whole team of people working on this IP for years. I'm so glad this person is not affiliated with the Bayonetta brand anymore. Let her fade into oblivion and embrace the future of the IP.

@theGamerPad Min wage in the UK is £8.12 an hour (for age 23+) which I think translates to around £16-17,000 a year. Conversion rates fluctuates all the time but for a while it's been not great for GBP, but based on todays rate $15,000 would translate to around £13,000 (doing lots of rounding). Obviously the UK is also in a cost of living crisis so earning minum wage isn't great...but earing nearly a years worth of minimum wage for a week or two's work is pretty great. It's lot more than my monthly pay check that's for sure!

Definitely more than all of the developers who also spend years learning and honing their craft, be it art, code, animation, design etc, will see for a month's pay rate.

I think that if you won’t buy the game because of this, you are a hypocrite. Let me ask you, how are your Nikes? Walking good right? Ever wondered how much money the employee(s) that made them is making? I can tell you now that the Vietnamese little boy doesn’t bring home 4K. But he doesn’t have Twitter, so we don’t care.

He doesn’t have a voice. It’s just amazing how the world explodes over this. I don’t care about that woman. She got an offer and it wasn’t enough for her. Her asking not to buy this game is pretty sad, but the fact people are standing behind her is even worse. I hope Bayonetta 3 will sell 100 million copies.

The old saying goes, "The truth is somewhere in the middle." It is possible that Hellena Taylor is telling the truth, or it is possible that Platinum Games is telling the truth. But it is also possible that the truth lies between the two claims, and both parties are leaving out crucial information.

But I will mention one thing regarding the two sources. Regardless of anonymity, how can Bloomberg be certain that those two sources have accurate, or better yet, first-hand knowledge of the negotiations? While I do agree it is vital for the privacy of sources to be protected, it's possible those sources don't have access to accurate information, much less first-hand information, and are feeding the news media false or biased information themselves.

Famously, when United States Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords was shot in January 2011 in an assassination attempt, two sources claimed that she had died, when she had, in fact, survived (albeit severely wounded). The two sources were not even on the scene, much less had access to accurate information, and yet multiple news media outlets "confirmed" that she had died based on those two flimsy sources, before being forced to retract their reports.

Of course, I am not saying that the sources in this case ARE lying, but I am merely expressing hope that Bloomberg properly vetted their sources, and are striving to uphold journalistic integrity.

And for the record, any job that pays $4000 for a single session, I would absolutely take; even better if it was multiple sessions that paid $4000 each. That kind of money is two months worth of wages at my current job, and roughly four to five months worth of wages at my previous job. To make that kind of money in a day, or even a week, I'd chomp at the bit for it.

@CharlieGirl how much should "more money" be?

I'm not referring to anyone specific here, but "The truth is always in the middle" is something fools say when they want to sound wise. Sometimes the truth could be in the middle, when you're listening to a couple of honest brokers who have different interpretations. Sometimes one person is lying to you.

I'm still disappointed that so few people were able to muster any sort of skepticism about Hellena's videos. She made a bogus claim about the value of the franchise, she crapped on Jennifer Hale, and she had an entitled tone throughout. It didn't make any sense either. Yet some of the folks who mobbed up and polished their pitchforks still seem to want to have a fight, I guess because they like to fight?

If you can't detect a difference in plausibility between Hellena's claims and what Schreier and his multiple sources claim, I really encourage you not to gamble or invest or open your spam folder ever.

@Tobiaku Except that's exactly why his word in this matter has even more weight. He will pretty much always take the anti-capitalist left-wing side of the argument, like the folks at Resetera do, in an obnoxious manner even, but on this occasion he is effectively siding with the company. This means he must have seen irrefutable evidence that Taylor is lying.

@Martijn87, well I did that. In multiple languages even. It was $1000 per HYAA

@Spaghett Not sure saying Jennifer Hale is moving up in the world because she's now voicing Bayonetta is correct. She has nearly 500 VA credits to her name including several Star Wars projects and even Cinderella in Ralph Breaks the Internet.

The story was always a weird one. Especially that rant that Hale was not allowed to sign merchandise. What, why would you mention something like that?

Errmmm, then you realize Taylor gets paid gigs for signing merchandise and doing selfies and so on. Ah well not for long I suppose.

@AstroTheGamosian Except it isn't "Platinum Games" offering this side of the story, it's people that wish to remain anonymous, who could be PG employees or 3rd party involved in the negotiations, or both. Obviously, they wouldn't do this in an official capacity on behalf of the company, they don't represent PG in any way, they did this of their own free will.

As such, this take is possibly much closer to that "middle" that is the truth in any story like this, rather than any of the sides. The only "official" eponymous PG statement is what Kamiya wrote on Twitter. And I believe at this point only the most foolish would still deny that Hellena is not telling us the whole story, which automatically makes her entire narrative suspect.

@Switch_Pro Agree. There is probably a talent agency or some other middle man involved. I don't think Platinum has direct contact with all (potential) voice actors, especially outside Japan.

If she lied then frankly, screw her, jowever dont let her lies get in the way of the fact va's are screwed around and lowballed often, i just hope the general conversation of va's being screwed around doesnt get drowned out if she did lie.

@Tober well you've been robbed. They've been using that for the past 24 years. You should've gotten millions already.

@Would_you_kindly I'm pretty sure Jason Schreier didn't get hired by bloomberg for being full of crap.

@Brett I also kinda hate the whole "the truth is in the middle" argument. Mainly because it lloks like you a "both sideing" a situation instead of actually looking at it critically or you are doing damage control but don't want to say that you were wrong. Sure, the truth CAN be in the middle but sometimes a side is just wrong and people don't want to commit to it, so they change the subject or use this argument.

Like, if one person comes to you and says "the earth is round" and another says "the earth is flat", you are not intelligent by saying "well, the truth is in the middle" and then leave. You are just avoiding talking about it.

In this case, at most, you can say that it is a "he says, she says" situation. Since neither have definitive proof that this happened aside from their words.

@dalekman9999 This is probably the worse situation here. There is a point that VA need to be more appreciated. Like, union VA fees are arround the original claim (4k dolars in total for 3 sessions). And those are UNION voice acting, which usually pays higher.
And, I get that for smaller games paying more than that could be unfeasable but, let's be real, it would be unfair to ignore that big companies also use similar salaries for VA.

But the thing is... this doesn't seem to be the best example to use at all. Even before this report came out, the fact that she went against the replacement VA for Bayonetta and made such unrageous claims about how much the Bayo IP was actually worth was already suspitious for me. But now? It turns out she maybe got quite a good deal and she just asked for more and got rejected. Which definetly changes the narrative a bit.

It's a shame too, now seeing all of the people trying to change the narrative by focusing on general VA pay due to this. I get why it was done but linking all of the dicusion about VA fees to her and the boycott of Bayo 3 was a bad idea.

I'm not sure what to believe now, but I hope there is very clear resolution, if there isn't already.

I hope Hellena did not lie, I already felt she could word herself better but also assumed she was angry with reason and saying what was likely to be true about her reasons.

She did say she had mental health issues, so maybe she does and lied, related to that.

But I won't assume for certain she's telling the truth, or lying, or confused, right now.

I think what's possibly happened here is the game's storyline being changed after their being unable to secure Hellena back in the first place due to a pay dispute. They already had an in-series means of essentially replacing Bayonetta with the character Cereza, which I get the impression is what Jennifer Hale is playing. The poor woman can't clear the air though because of the NDA in place, and it seems like there may be a large degree of misunderstanding on Taylor's part when Platinum returned to offer her this 'cameo' role. I imagine she would have played OG Bayonetta in a dream or a flashback or somesuch, which she has somehow interpreted as them lowballing her to voice a main character, which from the sounds of it isn't even on the table anymore. Seems like she doesn't really care for the franchise or its lore (and why should she, frankly) and probably has her wires crossed over what they actually wanted her to do/play in the game, hence her kicking up this hoo-hah. That's the kindest reading one could take of this, really.

@jimbob298 I see where you're coming from, that no one's looking for an acting spectacle to lead a role such as Bayonetta considering gameplay trumps narrative in this context, but the concern is moreso in the hands of the world of career acting rather than the actual target audience (though, correct me if I'm wrong). Is it not, "moving up in the world" to take an additional role for one's portfolio? In the world of acting, you want as many noteworthy roles as you possibly can. Bayonetta is a reputable brand, which bolsters Hale's background even further. Taking on another role, adding that variety or diversity to your resume, is moving up in the world.

@Spaghett That depends on aspirations. Some people are just looking for shortcuts in life. And royalties is such a shortcut. If you gather enough royalties, you can live a luxurious life on passive income without having to work again. This is the goal of voice actors pushing for royalties. Nothing less. It's pure greed.

@westman98 Well, we know she thought that thanks to her initial "450 million" claim. Now this makes me think she had that misconception since way long before, so she based her 6-fig request on that.

Toads famous words from mario party 3:Well arnt you greedy.

@Wexter Based Wexter being the sane one in the room

@Switch_Pro So? Your point? Voice Actors literally provide the soul of a lot of characters. How they sound in games that make prominent use of VA work is just as important as how the words in the script portrays them. It adds a dimension that words on the screen alone cannot provide.

And if they got to live comfortably from doing that work, what's wrong with that? Their work provides value not just to the game, but to millions of people who may love how the characters sound and feel thanks to their voice.

I think they should get residuals for that after the games make a certain amount of dosh.

To think she would had gotten away with it if it weren't for that meddling kid, Jason Schreier.

@PtM Yeah but that was after she refuse the $15K offered, later on Platinum wants to pay her $4K for a cameo which she also refused and I betcha she used that cameo offered as the main cause for her shout to down PG.

@MegaVel91 never been called based before. Thank you!!! I try my best to look at things objectively; even if my personal emotions make me want to scream into the void. Sometimes I'm appreciated for it, other times not. But, thank you!

I'm willing to bet 18k that this is a game of telephone that went horribly wrong and there is an intern at the heart of this mix up.

@Astral-Grain Well, Journalism in general has changed: People (myself included) expect quick information and can get it from tons of sources in seconds, but this also means these sources have to be churning out content constantly, so Rumors, UE Fan creations, and things like this are fair game, so now it's like "look at this cool/interesting/funny videogame-related thing" about the same thing across multiple sites.

@MegaVel91 I dont think VA should get residuals, bonuses after certain numbers of sales sounds more fair just like what platinum games employees should get.

@Tamalesyatole I hear you that this "news" needs to be reported somewhere, so it may as well be video game outlets.

I just miss that video game writing used to be focused only on the games and how interesting they are, which was a bit more suitable for children. I'm not saying because children visit this site that the content needs to be nerfed, it's just so dark and serious a lot of the time and it didn't used to be that way.

We didn't used to have articles asking if we like or dislike a voice actor, which stirs up drama, intentional or not. Video game news used to be more passive, that's all I'm saying.

@Ralizah That alone is such a frightening situation itself. Those kind of people are like a treacherous, bloodthirsty mob lifted from the medieval ages, riled up and ready to act on stoning by even the utter mumbling of someone possibly being suspected of practicing witchcraft.

@jowe_gw I didn't knew that phrase/idiom before (English being not my primary language) but have been reading that A LOT (but only after the SchReport, mind you) and while I wanted to agree with it, the "In the middle" or even "in between" didn't quite seem... "right".

And thanks to your Earth analogy it finally downed on me: "Truth is in the BARYCENTER"

Strictly speaking, two bodies orbiting each other actually orbit the barycenter: the Center of Mass of both. If both objects have the same mass (bear with me and let's call mass 'weight') they orbit around a point in the middle ("she said he said"). However, when one body has a greater weight, the barycenter gets near to that body's own CoM. In the Moon-Earth example, the barycenter is within the Earth's circumference.

So, back to the TaylorGate (xP), the SchReport evidence outweights Taylor's claim, placing the barycenter, and the truth, within the circumference of the former.

I love analogies.

@Ryu_Niiyama I've checked Wikipedia... Yes, that's right.

Pretty much. Jason has a habit of half truths. In the case of Naughty Dog, he made up stories that were mostly fabrication and were later for the most part debunked. I'm not particularly sure which part of the story is true or not. Nonetheless, it seems very odd that only 4 sessions would be booked for the main character of a AAA game. Most games require long term commitments from anyone who takes a main role. This process is normally at least a year. I'm just baffled by this entire situation. Something doesn't really add up.

@IsAmeAMario Bayonetta has never been dialogue heavy and is an action game that is on the short side with many reused clips. HT has already said the sessions for previous games were short. So this new info lines up with that and what Kamiya said.

@MegaVel91 Right, the voice actors should get a fat paycheck and also residuals for working on a game for a week, while programmers and designers etc that work on games for years should only get a salary. How about no? Voice actors can live a good life without the lazy passive income from self entitled residuals.

@Switch_Pro Well, either way as another saying goes, "The plot thickens." It will be interesting to see what comes of this whole fiasco.

I mean, I don't plan on boycotting the game myself, but I have more important expenses to make (paying off student debt, upgrading electronic devices such as phones and computers, looking for a place of my own to live, etc.) than buying up all these video games.

That's why I try to look for free-to-play games, or take advantage of the Epic Games Store's free game releases (and I've gotten quite a few AAA games, such as GTA V, through them that way).

In fact, the free-to-play game that's been taking up most of my time this last year has been Genshin Impact. I love that game, and I think it's even better than Zelda, especially since it has regular events that increase the replay value.

Everyone is replaceable.

Okay, if it is true about the 5 sessions for $3-$4k per 4 hours. Then I consider that as good pay.

@IsAmeAMario
She herself said the previous games were done in 4 sessions at 4 hours each. Other VAs have said that is common as well.

Even if Schreier's reporting isn't true (it probably is, based on the other info we have), the 4000 she mentioned before is perfectly in line with union standard pay. She isn't a big name in voice acting and shouldn't be demanding a lot, especially since it seems she hasn't been active.

Then she tried to screw over a struggling developer by calling for a boycott and then she attacked her replacement, who did nothing wrong, while claiming ownership of the character. She was wrong from the very beginning.

@Switch_Pro Yeah you can understand for movie stars because putting the actors name on the poster will draw an audience. There's a good argument certain movies wouldn't have had half the ticket sales if it wasn't a certain movie star playing the MC.

But VAs for videogames...not really. Putting "Hellena Taylor is...Bayonetta" on the box or advertising isn't going to make anyone more likely to pick up the game. She does a good enough job to make the character enjoyable, but the fact its her VA-ing the character isn't so intrinsic to the game's success that she deserves residuals or being paid over the odds just to voice the character.

I think PG offering her 3-4x the union rates is more than fair, it's pretty generous.

@Dr_Lugae Yes, maybe people don't understand this, but movie stars are NOT easily replaceable and that's what gives them power. Literally having themselves on the screen, with face, voice, mannerisms etc, is a completely different thing than just a voice. For better or for worse, voice actors are very easily replaceable unless they are an incredibly massive name, so their negotiating power is very limited, and they should keep that in mind and not make outlandish demands.

Omg who cares, it’s such a trite and boring drama by now. She obviously wasn’t wanted for whatever reason and to me at least it really does NOT matter who voices games as long as it’s appropriate quality acting 🤷🏻‍♂️ yeah she is salty AF but who cares? She will get over it

@DoomPlague her whine tells a lot about her character and gives me a pretty strong assumption she “wasn’t fun at the party” 😅

@theGamerPad it's not going to be a Mario Kart style seller. Maybe a couple million. Still wouldn't be worth what she estimated it at.

@Specters yeah not even close to what she said. The game might sell 2.5m

@theGamerPad I don't know why you're still defending her when she's even confirmed she lied to weaponize the fanbase.

But here let's do the math. 5 million in game sales for the series, even including an imaginary 2.5 million of your estimate for Bayo 3. We'll even assume all were sold at completely full retail.
5 million x $60 is 300 million. She estimated the Bayo series at $450 million. Still doesn't add up.

But that $300 million isn't actually even the worth since you have to take out production costs, shipping, marketing, retailer fees, multiple publishers (Nintendo and Sega) etc. If we're even being generous with those figures what actually got back to Platinum might be $30 million. But that's a far cry from $450 million and I doubt Platinum even got that.

Also what we know is Platinum were about to go under till Nintendo stepped in for Bayo 2 + W101 and those sold so badly they were about to go under again until Microsoft got them for Souldbound but that cancellation almost sank the company again till their work with Square on Neir which gave them an actual mainstream hit that they've said in multiple interviews that saved the company and gave them enough money to start self publishing.

@Specters I’ve never once defended her. I called her a liar from the start and said that nothing she said made sense

@theGamerPad Maybe you didn't understand how you were coming off but it was defending her by saying that's not what she said by valuing it at nearly half a billion dollar franchise (aka Mario Kart style seller). And then saying Bayo 3 might sale 2.5 million units (only 0.5 million more than I said it would). Again wouldn't come near what she estimated it at.
And if you weren't defending her then you're splitting hairs which wasn't needed at all.