Video: MVG Takes A Closer Look At Nintendo's N64 Emulation And "What Went Wrong" Over The Years

Wasn’t input lag debunked?

Never heard of that black overlay that’s absolutely ridiculous especially since they present NES/SNES with the correct color palette now which was a infamous problem going back to the Wii VC.

Nintendo needs a wake up call.
When N64 games emulating from NSO getting worse than previous machines, it needs some fixes, improvements, price cut and apologize.

Fairly certain the Wind Waker bonus disc came out before Collector’s Edition.

@Anti-Matter They probably will give you all of that except for the price cut. What Nintendo need to do with NSO once they had perfected all the emulation issues and finally got more games is to give us the option to purchase and download those games so we could keep the ones we like so if I only enjoy Breath of Fire II, I could just download that and leave the rest at NSO then I don't have to access NSO anymore to play Breath of Fire II.

Don’t take this as gospel, but I have heard that Ocarina is the worst showing for this emulator however and that other games run rather well. But if anyone wants to debunk what I’ve heard, or wants to share their experiences, let me know. I’m still pretty conflicted on purchasing this, as the libraries grow.

"Yes, Nintendo does care about emulation - they have for many, many years.."
..at stopping and shutting down all rom sites, and fan service they come across.

@Kyloctopus Honestly, Sin and Punishment runs great and that’s way more taxing on the original hardware than most N64 games. I’ve not noticed Ocarina running particularly awful and I know that game inside out but then again, I cut my teeth on a Mac emulator with a keyboard in the early 2010s after I lost my Cube AC adapter. There’s very slight input lag on Switch but it’s not noticeable unless you’re attempting something reliant on frame-perfect tricks. I’m terrible at ground jumps so I’m not the best person to judge the Switch version for that but I’ve managed Mido skip and general traversal skips like the windmill jump, Kak fence jump and stuff no bother.

Nintendo should really cancel BotW 2 and focus all of their manpower on properly emulating OoT!
They also owe everyone of us an apology and consolidation payments!
Sacrificing 2 or 3 virgins also wouldn't go amiss to pay for their crimes!
How dare they! The audacity of this company!

I own ALL of these various incarnations of Ocarina of Time. Honestly I’m really not seeing any issues with the NSO version. Put about 15 hours into it so far. It’s crisp, runs well, the C buttons translate well to the right joystick. No glitches or whatever. Much ado about nothing…

@mereel ignoring the issues just because you don't see them doesn't mean they don't exist, same goes for ignoring them.

Goldeneye 007 runs at crappy a 7 to 9 FPS in multiplayer on the original N64, yet I and my friends enjoyed the hell out of that game... but you don't see either of us claiming "the game runs fine and has no issues", we all will admit it runs TERRIBLE but yet had fun with it.

People should finally learn to split those 2 things from each other, N64 emulation in the NSO has a ton of issues, even if you have fun at least admit the issues, this goes for everyone.

Because having fun doesn't mean something is good, and just because something is bad doesn't mean you can't have fun with it.

@Specter_of-the_OLED they should stop this online emulator nonsense and just bring back VC. The games people have already bought on it from past consoles/handheld just have them ready to download for free.

Personally, I have been happy with the N64 emulation on NSO so far; especially STAR FOX 64 and MARIO KART 64. At least they are not all dark like on my WiiU.

@Slowdive I wonder if this is the reason we didn’t get an N64 mini?

Let us buy those games Nintendo, and for people who just want to try all these games let them subscribe too so they have access to all those games, but we want a choice to keep the games we like and own them like on VC!

I just hope the situation gets fixed.

@PushMyGran1986
Yep, they just invented a Way to earn again Money from the same Games they have sold in the past digitally.

Imagine you would have to buy all PC Games again and again after buying a new one.
You can't even imagine it to do that on the PC.
Some are going so far, they even update your Games for free to the Remaster (Quake lastly for Example, Blood Rayne and Divinity).

@PhhhCough and of course shutting down the Wii Virtual Console and not allowing those games to transfer to other systems.

People need to relax. I've been playing Oot on NSO, only up to the Forest Temple, and I am enjoying every minute. The game works. The game isn't broken or unplayable. In my opinion on the whole, I think it looks a little sharper that the original game with some infrequent minor graphical glitches, but if I remember correctly that happened on N64 occasionally. Don't get me wrong there are some functionality issues with other games such the memory pack with Mario Kart and WinBack. And then there is the price. Graphically, all the games fine. Maybe nostalgia is taking over as I haven't played OoT since I had a Gamecube.

@Kyloctopus everyone is just pointing to that one missing reflection effect in that one scene in that one room in the water temple in ocarina and calling the whole service ***** because of it. its crazily overblown

N64 games on NSO work look and play great for me, and they look a lot better than on Wii U, where everything was dark for some reason.

So, that's it! Nintendo should hire the Steven in order to fix this mess!

@tektite_captain N64 games on NSO work and look and play for you the same way they work, look and play for everybody else.... garbage

@BlackenedHalo you clearly havent played any of them

@Rayquaza2510 if someone doesn’t notice issues then by definition they are not ignoring them

There are some issues with oot nso but i still take it over that ugly wiiu filter, weird that they have regressed with emulation though.

Pokémon Puzzle League is the only one that suggests it's a custom emulator on Wii because of the way it does fmv.

But even then it's clearly based off the same software. Wii U is not much different, I'm sure if you dump SM64 into OoT it would show numerous errors, the Wii U having more memory means it can maintain profiles for the games it runs, across releases.

The reason I believe this is so, is because on Wii VC if you insert the SM64 ROM on a game without the darker colors SM64 still ends up with those darker colors anyway, so there's obviously some per-game settings remaining across releases.

The Wii had tighter memory limitations, you can tell with 32 MB games adding a loading screen to closing the HOME Menu. So these profiles are presumably removed; giving the appearance of a 'specialized' emulator for each game.

@TCF That a Wii got less input lag than the original hardware is so amazing. The emulators they build for those games on Wii are just a work of art at this point.

I’ve played OOT on Wii and N64 multiple times, and I haven’t really noticed anything different with the switch version. Although it has been a good year, I’d have to play the original again and compare it properly.

@Anti-Matter
That price cut will only exist if people don't blindly pay for that Expansion Pack. They aren't gonna pull another 3DS situation unless that happens.

These articles will never end, will they?

Ocarina of Time's Switch emulation has pros and cons, and balances out into "adequate." On the one hand, it's sharp and crisp, more than I ever remember it being, and generally looks rather good, even docked on my 4K television. On the other hand, though, certain fog and reflection effects do not display properly in some areas. I'd say the already-viral Dark Link encounter is the most affected, because that's supposed to happen on a shallow reflecting pool and, on Switch, there's no reflection, only opaque water textures. And that's kind of an issue when the entire theme of the fight is, quite literally, encountering a mirrored version of yourself.

Proves that hackers do what Nintendont. Nintendo really screwed up lol.

I’ll always love CRT plus original console best - there’s a use case for every option though. I just feel the n64’s graphics just suit a crt better. Saying that, Wii VC looks nice in 480i (never 480p!) on a consumer trinitron (not pro!)

Mistakes were made

@cmbaum
In cases like this things like input lag or graphical issues are something that can be measured.

If someone doesn't notice said issues or has no problem with them then that is fine, its more an issue when someone knows that others are having issue with it but either dismissing their problems as "whining" or outright claiming they are lying about said issues.

@Mgalens now THAT I agree with. I sympathize with those that bought the service and found the differences to be disruptive or cheapen their experience. This being said, the amount of media pile-on based on an unknown (perhaps small?) % of people who are annoyed is a bit troubling to me.

@cmbaum half true.

People that defend it know about the issues but ignore them because they "do not notice" them.

People that really do not notice the issues don't defend it to begin with, they just enjoy the game thinking it should be that way, these people also don't go online search for stuff they don't know are a issue to begin with.

The latter is the biggest group by far, and in their case I agree with your statement.

However I do think @Mgalens did explain it better in this case.

@Rayquaza2510 in all fairness the willful neglect crowd kind of needs to be there given the insane amount of negative publicity out there. If you Google “Nintendo Switch Online” you definitely get a series of headlines that WAAY overstates the bad-ness of the release. It’s definitely not perfect, but the media is treating it like a crime against humanity. I think you would have more cause to be annoyed if the coverage was reflective of the actual product.

Isn’t tiphis just because the wii and the gc were basidally the same kind of processors.. (as seen in the backwards compatibility ) and emulation thus was far easier, and the switch ARM is a different beast….

One of my favourite games ever. It's a very interesting video, here's the source:

http://twitter.com/Volvagia224/status/1453887148113936384

The only problem with Wii is that it's SD and doesn't have HDMI. I didn't get the Wii versions because of the GameCube bonus disc and I thought they were the same. Actually, Virtual Console's Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask are 50Hz in Europe and the bonus disc is 60Hz worldwide. My best choice is to play the GameCube disc or the frontend for emulators that can de downloaded on Series X/S.

The problem with Wii U is that emulation is worse. However, at least you can get rid of the dark filter and improve the Wii U emulation visually.

http://gbatemp.net/threads/install-fixed-n64-games-without-dark-filter-on-wii-u-tutorial.526283/

@Rayquaza2510 @Mgalens I couldn't have said that better.

@Gwynbleidd I would have preferred to purchase individual games as well. Also, Nintendo just released 21 games for Wii and Wii U Virtual Consoles. Paying for them indefinitely via Nintendo Online is not something I am willing to do. Who wouldn't want to pay £€$20 just once for the best version of Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask? Ocarina of Time 3D is wonderful but low-resolution and Majora's Mask 3D's gameplay was butchered. Both games still need a definitive version. What Nintendo is offering on Switch... it just doesn't interest me at all. Another shameless scam like the same-gen overpriced ports.

@cmbaum this is a mistake you make here... and a lot of people do.

This is less of a Nintendo issue and more of a Google issue, I always browse in private mode + certain plug-ins due to the fact that Google and Youtube create a profile of you.

If I now search for Nintendo Switch Online, after 3 pages I finally get first hit about N64 emulation running crap on it.

But when they do have a profile of you, your search results are much different.

But again that is a Google/Youtube issue, they show you what the algorythm thinks you "want" to see, and 99% of the people using the Internet are not tech savvy enough to know all these big companies follow you and make you see what they think you want to see.

Also at fault are a lot of news websites that casually have multiple trackers in them, so that Google or Facebook and many others can follow you (depending on the trackers used)

@Rayquaza2510 you could be right. I still don’t think this situation is worthy of “most disliked announcement ever” though

@Gwynbleidd The 3DS versions are great but low-resolution and Majora's Mask 3D has gameplay downgrades. Grezzo could remake these games once again using the 3DS assets, I'd love it. They did a great job on 3DS but Nintendo watered Majora's Mask down in the process.

I relate to you. Having a Wii U, you can imagine how many games I have skipped on Switch and how little Nintendo has offered me since 2017. It's been such a letdown.

@cmbaum fully agree there, YouTube has so many more videos that really deserve such treatment, NSO does not as much.

So if you bought N64 games on the Wii Virtual Console, transferred them to a Wii U, but then you haven't yet paid the $2 per game upgrade to get the Wii U VC version with the restore point functionality (or it just wasn't released on the Wii U VC), which version of the emulation will the games use on that particular Wii U?

@BlueOcean That's exactly why I'm not buying the expansion pack of NSO even when I do get a Switch. (I'm also not an Animal Crossing fan.) Why would I pay a continuous subscription fee for Genesis and N64 games when I've already bought all the ones I want from the Wii Virtual Console and can still play them on my Wii U?

@BulbasaurusRex It would use the Wii version within the Wii Menu but you could even have both versions at the same time, one in the Wii Menu and the other in the Wii U Menu. The best official emulation for N64 is the Wii emulation on a Wii or in the Wii Menu of a Wii U.

Yeah, the Expansion Pack makes little sense to me. Nintendo is not considering what games have users already purchased using the linked NNID and Nintendo accounts. It's miserable.

@Rayquaza2510 and we now pretty much agree on everything! A rare debate where both sides come together. Take that internet!

@BlueOcean I'm not a fan of "Majora's Mask" in the first place, but I'm curious as to why you think the gameplay in the 3DS remaster was downgraded.

You're just the first person I've ever heard give that complaint, and looking back at NL's review, the only negative thing they had to say about it compared to the original version was that the touchscreen inventory could've been implemented a little better. They even gave it a rare 10/10!

@BulbasaurusRex Majora's Mask really blew me away on Nintendo 64 but until then Ocarina of Time was my favourite game ever. Both games are masterpieces and playing Skyward Sword or Breath of the Wild after them is like drinking bad dispenser coffee after the best coffee you've ever drunk... but that is just my opinion.

The following video shows how Majora's Mask 3D gameplay was downgraded.

@BlueOcean That video makes some interesting points. (Although, I don't agree with its argument of the save system, as it can't be that hard to just quickly find a save statue and save the game immediately after resetting time, while just ignoring them for the rest of the time.)

Still, with the improvements the game also made, it seems to be up to the individual player as to which is the overall better version of the game.

What I find most concerning is that in skimming the reviews on Metacritic, only 3 of them seemed to mention any of these numerous downgrades. As I said, NL's doesn't mention them at all, and most of these reviewers are veterans of the original game. How are they so blind as to not catch these problematic changes that should at least be pointed out (especially in a review for a remaster) even if they don't personally affect them as much as some other players?!

You are absolutely right. Even if the changes are not bad for some reviewers, they should have been mentioned. I immediately noticed some of the changes. It makes you wonder if reviewers really know what they are doing!

The worst changes in the 3DS version are the swimming, the Deku jumping and some bosses. The new colours might be better or worse depending on your taste but that's not as important, in my opinion. The fishing holes, as optional content, are the best addition. The new Bombers' Notebook is nice but, back in the day, I wrote down what the NPCs were doing during the days and it was a bit of an investigation. Just the Kafei side quest is a story on its own. I think this is where Majora's shines, investigating the side quests, the NPCs lives and going back and forth in a packed compact world, where you also have the ability to travel in time. The main story is round as Ocarina of Time, both are perfectly paced. Skull Kid's background is fascinating. Majora's Mask is one of the greatest gaming experiences I've ever had.